What is our level? - Printable Version
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RE: What is our level? - Kitto - 08-02-2024
People in Gloucester wouldn't watch Ealing Trailfinders v Bedford Blues if it was on in their back garden, but they'd go down the pub to watch Championship football.
More people watch Gloucester Rugby than Gloucester City AFC, yes, but more people play football and I'd imagine more people "support" a football club than a rugby one.
RE: What is our level? - Daveangel - 08-02-2024
(08-02-2024, 12:32 PM)Kitto Wrote: People in Gloucester wouldn't watch Ealing Trailfinders v Bedford Blues if it was on in their back garden, but they'd go down the pub to watch Championship football.
More people watch Gloucester Rugby than Gloucester City AFC, yes, but more people play football and I'd imagine more people "support" a football club than a rugby one.
It's the classic social media bio.
Loves football and rugby, supports Liverpool and Glaaaws!
RE: What is our level? - Delta Papa - 08-02-2024
(08-02-2024, 12:32 PM)Kitto Wrote: People in Gloucester wouldn't watch Ealing Trailfinders v Bedford Blues if it was on in their back garden, but they'd go down the pub to watch Championship football.
More people watch Gloucester Rugby than Gloucester City AFC, yes, but more people play football and I'd imagine more people "support" a football club than a rugby one.
I'd quite happily watch Ealing Trailfinders v Bedford Blues in my back garden - if only it was big enough (sigh). I wouldn't go to bl**dy Ealing to do so though.
RE: What is our level? - Paul - 08-02-2024
(08-02-2024, 12:35 PM)Daveangel Wrote: It's the classic social media bio.I can name a few people who exactly fit that profile...
Loves football and rugby, supports Liverpool and Glaaaws!
RE: What is our level? - OldDirtyGlasses - 08-02-2024
For 39 post-war years, 'non-league' clubs (excluding the 1950 increase from 88 to 92 football league clubs) were voted into the Football League on only 6 occasions, plus a single replacement for a club folding.
1951: Workington replaced New Brighton.
1960: Peterborough replaced Gateshead.
1962: Accrington Stanley (..Who are they?!..Exactly!!) resigned and were replaced by Oxford United.
1970: Cambridge United replaced Bradford Park Avenue.
1972: Hereford United replaced Barrow.
1977: Wimbledon replaced Workington.
1978: Wigan Athletic replaced Southport.
From what I can make out, we applied for election on 4 occasions (1956 - when we finished 7th in the SL; 1958 - when we finished 12th; 1959 - 13th; & 1964 - 15th) - receiving, in total, 4 votes across those years.
Even the creation of the Alliance Premier League (current National League) and a single, 'champion' candidate, saw no elections to the FL for 7 years until automatic promotion was voted in. For 16 years that was a single team candidate. Its been two candidates for 22 years (including this one). Talks about a third are still ongoing.
Talk of a 'natural level' is a bit pointless because of the gentleman's club mentality of league football, but post-war, our league level for the first 13 years was the immediate step below the FL and our average placing was 59% down the league (equivalent to 14th in the current league) - although we had a miserable first season in '46/'47 and were rooted to the foot of the SL having a goal difference of -63 having conceded 120 in 32 matches - but weren't demoted.
In '59/'60 we were 'restructured' down a level where we spent 10 years, averaging 68% down the league (16th/17th in current league) - but included promotion to the SL Prem finishing 3rd.
2 more years at the step below FL with an average place of 93% (22nd/23rd in current league) - relegated.
14 years two steps below FL - average place 62% (15th) - relegated.
4 years three steps below FL - average place 29% (7th) - promoted finishing 1st.
11 years two steps below FL - average place 39% (9th/10th) - relegated.
9 years three steps below FL - average place 41% (10th) - includes a promotion as runners up but being restructured down a step and promotion as playoff winners.
15 years two steps below FL - average place 65% (15th/16th) - potentially ending in a relegation place that is excluded from the average.
So that is 15 seasons at the level directly below the FL; 50 seasons (including this) two levels below the FL; and 13 seasons three levels below the FL.
Our most common level is two levels below the FL and our average place is 59% (14th) at that level.
RE: What is our level? - Paul - 08-02-2024
(08-02-2024, 01:19 PM)OldDirtyGlasses Wrote: For 39 post-war years, 'non-league' clubs (excluding the 1950 increase from 88 to 92 football league clubs) were voted into the Football League on only 6 occasions, plus a single replacement for a club folding.Basically then, we're not very good and Lady Luck has never smiled upon us...
1951: Workington replaced New Brighton.
1960: Peterborough replaced Gateshead.
1962: Accrington Stanley (..Who are they?!..Exactly!!) resigned and were replaced by Oxford United.
1970: Cambridge United replaced Bradford Park Avenue.
1972: Hereford United replaced Barrow.
1977: Wimbledon replaced Workington.
1978: Wigan Athletic replaced Southport.
From what I can make out, we applied for election on 4 occasions (1956 - when we finished 7th in the SL; 1958 - when we finished 12th; 1959 - 13th; & 1964 - 15th) - receiving, in total, 4 votes across those years.
Even the creation of the Alliance Premier League (current National League) and a single, 'champion' candidate, saw no elections to the FL for 7 years until automatic promotion was voted in. For 16 years that was a single team candidate. Its been two candidates for 22 years (including this one). Talks about a third are still ongoing.
Talk of a 'natural level' is a bit pointless because of the gentleman's club mentality of league football, but post-war, our league level for the first 13 years was the immediate step below the FL and our average placing was 59% down the league (equivalent to 14th in the current league) - although we had a miserable first season in '46/'47 and were rooted to the foot of the SL having a goal difference of -63 having conceded 120 in 32 matches - but weren't demoted.
In '59/'60 we were 'restructured' down a level where we spent 10 years, averaging 68% down the league (16th/17th in current league) - but included promotion to the SL Prem finishing 3rd.
2 more years at the step below FL with an average place of 93% (22nd/23rd in current league) - relegated.
14 years two steps below FL - average place 62% (15th) - relegated.
4 years three steps below FL - average place 29% (7th) - promoted finishing 1st.
11 years two steps below FL - average place 39% (9th/10th) - relegated.
9 years three steps below FL - average place 41% (10th) - includes a promotion as runners up but being restructured down a step and promotion as playoff winners.
15 years two steps below FL - average place 65% (15th/16th) - potentially ending in a relegation place that is excluded from the average.
So that is 15 seasons at the level directly below the FL; 50 seasons (including this) two levels below the FL; and 13 seasons three levels below the FL.
Our most common level is two levels below the FL and our average place is 59% (14th) at that level.
RE: What is our level? - Tigermatty 2.0 - 08-02-2024
That’s the only real answer isn’t it? We’ve never been at a higher level because the players have never been good enough.
RE: What is our level? - Wilesy - 08-02-2024
In recent memory City have played and beaten the teams currently sat in 1st, 3rd, 8th and 19th in League 2.
A few years ago we were one promotion behind C********m Town and Forest Green.
Less than a year ago we lost a tight playoff match against Brackley on penalties.
Things change quickly in football - it's why millions of people love it... more so than rugby.
Whether this serves as inspiration to whatever the structure is behind the scenes at City these days remains to be seen. Or perhaps it would serve as inspiration for a new group of people to come in and wipe the slate clean.
In honesty we probably need that clean break. Makes you think..
RE: What is our level? - Paul - 08-02-2024
(08-02-2024, 01:35 PM)Tigermatty 2.0 Wrote: That’s the only real answer isn’t it? We’ve never been at a higher level because the players have never been good enough.Because the money has rarely been there to invest in the team, and when it has, poor choices have been made regarding managers and their recruitment. In the new era at NMP our most successful seasons were null and void when money was invested - and JR, disregarding his other attributes, recruited wisely - PG did not. And last season, SK got us into the playoffs, but clearly the finance to continue his recruitment policy hasn't been there this season. So, even if we do have money invested, the manager and the contacts/recruitment they bring is a key to any success - and that relies on income generation - ditto the comment re targeting businesses, community programmes to raise visibility etc.
RE: What is our level? - OldDirtyGlasses - 08-02-2024
Our post-war league results break down as follows:
Win 36.88%, Draw 22.60%, Loss 40.52%
In the 2pt for a win era:
Win 34.83%, Draw 20.20%, Loss 44.97%
In the 3pt for a win era:
Win 38.67%, Draw 24.68%, Loss 36.66%
Longlevens:
Win 33.61%, Draw 19.97%, Loss 46.42%
Horton Road:
Win 35.52%, Draw 21.94%, Loss 42.54%
Meadow Park (Old):
Win 42.43%, Draw 24.89%, Loss 32.68%
New Lawn:
Win 45.24%, Draw 26.19%, Loss 28.57%
Corinium:
Win 40.24%, Draw 21.95%, Loss 37.80%
Whaddon Road:
Win 34.25%, Draw 21.58%, Loss 44.18%
Jubilee:
Win 31.58%, Draw 21.93%, Loss 46.49%
Meadow Park (New):
Win 33.33%, Draw 28.26%, Loss 38.41%
Meadow Park (combined):
Win 41.19%, Draw 25.35%, Loss 33.47%